In this special edition of the Redefining CyberSecurity Podcast on the ITSPmagazine Podcast Network, hosts Sean and Marco navigate the complex universe of cybersecurity with a panel of experts, including Yolanda Reid, Laura Payne, Cat Self, Rob Black, Chuck Brooks, George Platsis, and Matthew Rosenquist. The conversation weaves together threads of technology, AI, geopolitics, and the shifting role of the Chief Information Security Officer (CISO).
Guests:
Yolanda Reid, Associate Partner at IBM [@IBM]
On Linkedin | https://www.linkedin.com/in/yolanda-c-reid/
Laura Payne, Chief Enablement Officer & VP Security Consulting at White Tuque [@WhiteTuque]
On Linkedin | https://www.linkedin.com/in/laura-l-payne/?originalSubdomain=ca
Cat Self, Principal Adversary Emulation Engineer, MITRE [@MITREcorp]
On Linkedin | https://www.linkedin.com/in/coolestcatiknow/
On Twitter | https://twitter.com/coolestcatiknow
Rob Black, Director at UK Cyber 9/12 Strategy Challenge [@Cyber912_UK]
On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/rob-black-30440819/
Chuck Brooks, Adjunct Professor at Georgetown University’s Graduate Applied Intelligence Program [@GeorgetownSCS]
On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/chuckbrooks/
On Twitter | https://twitter.com/ChuckDBrooks
George Platsis, Senior Lead Technologist, Proactive Incident Response & Crisis Management at Booz Allen Hamilton [@BoozAllen]
On LinkedIn | https://www.linkedin.com/in/gplatsis/
On Twitter | https://twitter.com/gplatsis
Matthew Rosenquist, Host of Cybersecurity Insights Podcast
On ITSPmagazine 👉 https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/matthew-rosenquist
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Host: Sean Martin, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining CyberSecurity Podcast [@RedefiningCyber]
On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/sean-martin
Co-Host: Marco Ciappelli, Co-Founder at ITSPmagazine [@ITSPmagazine] and Host of Redefining Society Podcast & Audio Signals Podcast
On ITSPmagazine | https://www.itspmagazine.com/itspmagazine-podcast-radio-hosts/marco-ciappelli
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This Episode’s Sponsors
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Episode Notes
Steering Through the Cybersecurity Evolution: Adapting to the Changing Tides of InfoSec
In this special edition of the Redefining CyberSecurity Podcast on the ITSPmagazine Podcast Network, hosts Sean and Marco navigate the complex universe of cybersecurity with a panel of experts, including Yolanda Reid, Laura Payne, Cat Self, Rob Black, Chuck Brooks, George Platsis, and Matthew Rosenquist. The conversation weaves together threads of technology, AI, geopolitics, and the shifting role of the Chief Information Security Officer (CISO) into a rich narrative that illuminates the challenges and opportunities in the cybersecurity landscape.
Cat Self shines a light on the increasing visibility of cyber threats on underrepresented platforms like Linux and MacOS, while Yolanda Reid emphasizes the role of community involvement in cybersecurity. Matthew Rosenquist discusses the challenges posed by legacy systems in Operational Technology (OT) networks, painting a picture of a landscape filled with potential vulnerabilities.
Rob Black advocates for a more proactive approach to cybersecurity, suggesting a chess-like strategy of using deception to shape attacker behavior. Laura Payne explores the evolving role of the CISO, suggesting that this role is expanding like an ever-growing universe, now including geopolitical trends and threat intelligence. George Platsis brings his experience in disaster and emergency management to the discussion, adding another layer to the intricate tapestry of this conversation.
This expert panel also discusses the potential implications of high-profile court cases involving CISOs, suggesting that these cases could redefine the role and responsibilities of CISOs, much like how a software update can redefine the functionality of a system. The conversation also touches on the increasing involvement of state actors in cyber attacks and the potential for these attacks to target critical infrastructure, painting a sobering picture of the potential future of cybersecurity.
The panel decided to close on a positive note, with each of the panelists and the hosts sharing some good news predictions for 2024. Not sure how the pants, the rat, and the roaches come into play there — let's just say it all works out somehow.
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Please note that this transcript was created using AI technology and may contain inaccuracies or deviations from the original audio file. The transcript is provided for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a substitute for the original recording, as errors may exist. At this time, we provide it “as it is,” and we hope it can be helpful for our audience.
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[00:00:00] Marco Ciappelli: Hello, everybody. This is Marco Ciappelli on AudioSignal Podcast, another episode today, another story to tell. As you know, as I say many times, I believe that we are all made of stories since the beginning of time. And even now in this era of digital communication, Still stories and maybe even more nowadays, stories are important.
So this is what we do on audio signal. We talk about stories, storytelling, and storytellers, which are the one behind the stories. Today is gonna be a fantastic conversation because, uh, Thomas R. Wilson is with me and we're gonna cover a topic that is. Maybe a little bit more unique compared with when we talk about a book or we talk about a movie or music or anything.
This is about carving stories in a way that can help neurodivergent people to express themselves in a Maybe in a better way, get more involved with other people, but I'm not the expert in this, and I'm more than happy to have Thomas introducing himself and let us know why he does what he do, and, uh, what is that he does.
So, Thomas, welcome to the show.
[00:01:18] Thomas R. Wilson: Thank you so much. Uh, as you stated, my name is Thomas R. Wilson. I go by Thomas. Uh, my work involves public speaking. Writing, journalism, uh, storytelling events, and so much more, but really the core of why I do this work is because I am someone who grew up in the neurodivergent community, in the mental health community, in the early 90s, 2000s, in a time when I learned at a very young age, there is so much power in stories, but there's so much stigma and, um, anger around people who have these needs and really the core of the work and why I do it is to help bring stories into the world and into communities that are often disconnected from businesses or resources But also really to bring the power of stories, bring that element of what connects human beings in stories and empathy and the power of stories, and really focus on making sure that people can also, at the same time, lift up their voices.
Lift up the communities and make sure that they get to tell their stories as well. I learned that, as I said, at a very young age, stories are integral to how we live through life, how we communicate with one another. And my events really are just that, to help people build up their voice. Not always to lift up my voice, but to help empower people to access their community better.
And with that focus of
[00:02:58] Marco Ciappelli: I could not agree more on many of the things that you said, and that's why we're having this conversation. When you asked me to come to the show, and I heard a little bit of your perspective, I was like, well, we're kind of Telling the same story in, in a different way. We both believe in this power of storytelling, which you said many times.
But before we talked about what you do and how other people interact with you and can become themselves storyteller I think we were all telling story either we realize that or not. So we may as well be conscious about it. And, uh, and maybe tell these stories in a better way
but I want to go back to. When you discover, you said you discover at a young age, that stories were powerful. Was there an event in particular that somebody like a mentor, somebody next to you that made you realize that? Or what was that sparkle?
[00:03:59] Thomas R. Wilson: So that really started when I was a young kid. I, uh, I've always loved stories.
My parents told me that, you know, when I was Two years old, I gravitated towards books. And when I was four years old, I loved hearing stories. But I think the real first interaction was with Uh, Edgar Allan Poe's The Raven, um, I heard that at about five years old, and I realized, like, that was one of the first stories that really clicked in my mind and went, whoa, wow, there's a lot of emotion, there's a lot of power in this.
And that set me on my path of wanting to be a writer. But I remember when I was about maybe seven, eight years old, my mother took me to a storyteller festival. And that is one of the major turning points in my life because I got to listen to, I feel like it was over 20 different professional storytellers telling stories like the Iliad and ones from folklore.
And when I was at that event, I remember sitting in an audience and hearing the story of the Odyssey, and I remember in that moment, I got up, looked at my mom, and just said, this is what I want to do with my life. And the great thing about my mom is she said, okay, well then make it happen. Um, and ever since then, I've learned.
Especially as a youth trying to advocate for himself, that when a story is told well, when you're going through school and you need help or need ways to communicate with other people, or even as an adult, those memories, those lasting stories become sparks for other people. And mine started at a really young age.
But there's so many more, uh, stories that I could tell in that, but I hope that kind of answers your question.
[00:05:51] Marco Ciappelli: Yeah, it does. And I love that you mentioned Edgar Allan Poe. It's one of my all time favorite, um, reading, especially thinking when he wrote those kind of stories and how still nowadays provoke those incredible emotion to the reader.
I mean, The Raven, it's, it's definitely a masterpiece. So a prop to, to that. I'm, I'm on your side with that. And I love how that was. That event was the sparkle for it. So I guess the the question that that I want to ask you is this You are an advocate for using storytelling to Bring more people let's say in telling story make them realize how important they are Is it?
An easy job? Is it easy, and I'm doing air quoting on the radio right now, to, to create that sparkle that came to you? I'm assuming that's what you want to recreate in other people. Do you see it happen often? Is it tough? Uh, you tell me.
[00:07:00] Thomas R. Wilson: So I think that's a great question. I think a lot of people would want to say that it's easy.
But I think the hardest part is connecting people to stories that matter to them. And I think especially in an age where a lot of people are kind of disconnecting from books more and more, or we feel like in media, there's a lot of the same stories told, I want to say what I would recommend to any storyteller to make it easier is make sure you know the people who are showing up, make sure you know the age group and who you're working with.
Because ultimately, like, I, I've been telling stories my entire life. I have a lot of practice in this. But for me as well, it's a difficult job. It takes a lot of preparation. It takes a lot of understanding of story structure. But what can make it so much easier is that old, um, adage of knowing your audience and prepping for them.
Um, that's like the advice that I give everyone when they're going to tell a story is just know your audience and put in the work that you need to.
[00:08:07] Marco Ciappelli: I think it's a great advice. When you do talk, of course, you have an audience in front of you. So, you know, you know who they are.
When you talk like this, we're doing radio style without even a video. We don't know who is listening to this. So we, we make an assumption in this case, people that like stories, but. Maybe they are one minority. Maybe another percentage is another minority. Another percentage is somebody that tells stories.
So is there, in your opinion, a, like a book, a playbook to write a good story? And I'm thinking the way, I don't know, Disney, uh, delivered their story, or the Hero Journey. Uh, you know, some classics that you can follow. But you then adopted to your own audience. So what's the trick there? But between knowing the rules and bending the rules?
[00:09:06] Thomas R. Wilson: So I think the I think the trick for me at the very least is being able. to be a personable or someone who can communicate with people well. Um, I do a lot of practice and a lot of prepping simply to be able to have a conversation flow. But I also, what I also do, I think you mentioned Disney and the Hero's Journey.
I spend a lot of time studying different media, um, studying even Disney. I spend a lot of time Listening to Dungeons and Dragons audio podcasts and things like that. And I think, I think there is You know, every person that shows up to events is going to be a little bit different, going to be, you know, like you said, they want different things and might be a different part of the community, but in my success, what I would say is knowing how to interact with people.
And knowing how to pick up cues from, you know, if someone seems disinterested, knowing how to adjust to that and being able to prepare to change your story. I think you have a great point that everyone is going to want something different, but one of the things I've learned is being adjustable and knowing how to flow with people and knowing how to respond in a positive, productive manner when you're communicating with them is probably the Best method that I use.
I know many other storytellers might try something else. But that's what I recommend, knowing how to really understand people and your story.
[00:10:47] Marco Ciappelli: So do you take Sounds to me that when you talk to people, it's easy to do. Meaning you can read the audience. You can make changes on the go, maybe, because you Get that feedback immediately, but and you need to be good at doing that, because if you're just going to over prepare and say, this is my story, I'm going to stick to that.
I think that being flexible, being able to make changes on the go, as you say, being spontaneous, it's very important, but not everybody can do that. The other thing is in that situation, you are in a In a two channel of communication, you, you, you are interacting with the audience, but when you write a book or when you're like, in this case, recording a podcast, I'm staring at a computer right now and in my office, um, I don't know where people are thinking.
So I just try to make an engaging story with you. Are there any tips that you give? Yes. You mentioned different media. So let's talk about that. Maybe. How do you treat different media and still be successful in this in storytelling?
[00:12:07] Thomas R. Wilson: So, um, you know, speaking for myself, I spend a lot of time listening and reading great storytellers.
Um, but I think you mentioned a very key thing when you're on a podcast when you're writing a book, it's very hard. And I think. You know, it's, it's again, such a hard question to answer for every media, but I think. Being aware of current trends in storytelling, knowing how, let me think of how to say this, knowing how to apply what is, you know, not popular in the sense that it's being overdone, but I feel like knowing what you're trying to communicate and Knowing that you understand your story well enough.
Knowing that you understand, like, I've personally worked on a book around, uh, sci fi world and one of the things that I did was I very much did a lot of research into modern films and modern, uh, aspects and in that I really broke down what I felt made it. The story is great. I looked at the plot. I like you said the hero's journey and I cross referenced that with a great deal of other books and other ideas and I think in the hero's journey in books and podcasts it's again going to be a hard thing there.
I don't think there's any perfect answer. But I think one of the key things is knowing your story well enough to be confident in it. I think a lot of people gravitate towards authors who are not just confident in their writing, but they are passionate about what they do. They care about what they're putting out into the world.
I also think there are a lot of people who gravitate towards books where the syntax and tone and, uh, You know, the mission of the book, the story, feels like it flows and it's cohesive. Um, and I think the other thing a lot of people gravitate towards, too, is characters that are, I mean, in a lot of Greek mythology that I've read, heroes are basically demigods, but they are also intrinsically flawed.
So I think part of that is also understanding How to mesh what you're trying to create with the human experience. I think, you know, I've read books where people disconnect from stories because people feel too perfect or people feel too flawed. And I've seen many TV shows where people have a really great villain that you love to hate, and people actually like that character more than the hero.
So In a lot of it, I think part of it, to summarize, is to be confident, to know what you're doing well enough, but to also understand the media around you and how it can help your story to better craft another world.
[00:15:08] Marco Ciappelli: Oh, that's, that's some serious That's interesting tips there. And quite funny that you said that because I, I just published today.
So when people listen to our conversation, they can go back and listen. An interview I did with Gary Braver, he wrote about 10 books. He's pretty successful writer in the mystery world. It's also a professor of, actually retired now, professor at a university teaching writing. And he made exactly the point that you made.
When you do a detective story, for example, he was giving this idea where you tell this story that the detective is trying to resolve, but you also, you have another story, which is maybe the inner. Fight the inner problem that personal problem that is also trying to resolve at a human level and maybe Make it more personable.
So what you said it seems to me It makes a lot of sense and even to professor and to teach writing So I love that part and it's definitely something to to think about a lot I would like to go into the specific of your target audience when you do the job of involving, uh, neurodiverse people to, to the table.
Can you describe me a little bit of what that story is? Um, how do you even put this community together? I know you work locally a lot. Um, so what do you do when you, when you do this kind of event with, uh, with this kind of target audience?
[00:16:55] Thomas R. Wilson: Um, so, um, a lot of the work I do, um, it actually involves reaching out and connecting with organizations.
And when I bring people together at events, one of the core aspects is making sure there's a place where people feel safe and They feel like they can access it within a reasonable accommodation. A lot of the people I work with, um, they may drive, they may have alternative services, but one of the main things when I set up a storytelling event or I do Dungeons and Dragons, other things that I do, is making sure that the people first and foremost feel safe.
They feel protected. Um, and then when I'm actually working at a space, one of the other things that I work very hard to do while I'm telling my stories is make sure to make the people feel validated. So some of the events I do are very much choose your own adventure kind of book style events where I tell a story and play Rebuild can help choose the story.
And a lot of my demeanor, a lot of how I behave and how I act, is meant to be encouraging, but it's also very sincere. Um, I believe a lot of people in my community and a lot of other communities have had experiences with events where people, um, are not put first. They're put after the setup or after how much it costs to be at the event.
And that becomes a very real thing. And people kind of disconnect very quickly. So on top of that safety and adding to it, I make sure to put people first. If someone needs an accommodation, I make sure I add that in. Uh, one of the things that I often run into is people feel very apologetic if they're not able to track the story well.
And one of the main things I do in that moment is. Look at them with a very look of very sincere look and say it's okay. I understand that you feel like you need to do this, but You do not and one of the things I've learned is a sincere level of communication Really adds to that element So, I work very hard to keep a tone that is gentle, keep a tone and a pace in my phrasing.
And I work with a lot of people who are very high functioning. But, like, the last little piece, and I'm more than happy to break this down more, is making sure that people, on top of being treated well and their needs are met, is creating a respectful space where people Don't have to worry about someone cussing them out or judging them or making fun of them.
And I make sure at my events that everyone understands that we are going to treat one another with utmost compassion and empathy. And if there is a problem to come to me first, and I will resolve it as the group needs.
[00:20:01] Marco Ciappelli: Well, I would like actually for you to go a little bit more into. Into this because I have this conversation on my other podcast quite a bit redefining society where we in the technology world and cyber security.
There is a lot of groups that are oriented in the for the made for the inclusion part. Um, for the neuro diverse. And so I had this conversation, but Now, being one of them, I, I, I think I have the gift of empathy, but it stops to a certain point. It's not like you're experiencing. Exactly. So if you, if you could try to tell a deeper story about that comfort environment, a comfortable open space environment where people can really start telling their own story without It's just like, no books, but determine like, make it as We're working on that, but the truck is also flying into so many poczes, so, you know, turns out you feel that they're The fear of being judged.
I think the audience will be very much interested in understanding that more.
[00:21:02] Thomas R. Wilson: Absolutely. Um, so, you know, to tell it in the realm of the story, one of the things that I do when I show up at a space, like I do an event at a local autism store, it's called the Autism Community Store. Um, and I run those every Saturday in my area.
And first thing that I do is I make sure I show up early because that reduces my own stress. But in this event, in this story, in this world that I'm creating, um, one of the things that a lot of these people are looking for, and you might hear a phone call in the background or something, um, There is this very real idea that part of putting an empathic space together is making sure that the energy of the space is good.
Um, a lot of people like myself who have anxiety when we walk into a new space. We don't like it when it's super loud or there's a lot of moving pieces or it's crowded. So I help set up in my own way tables and chairs with enough spaces and enough distance between one another. I set up Uh, my table, I set up things so that people have the emotional space, but also the, the idea of that bubble.
They don't want to be too close to people all the time. And as people walk in, I make sure to approach them and say hello. If they're returning, I show up, greet them with a very genuine smile. But I also am willing to approach their energy level and their emotional space I think you mentioned, you know, your empathy runs out.
I think everyone does, but part of that practice for me is making sure I have the perspective. I have the willingness to kind of put myself last if I need to and remove my ego. Um, so I have two people who show up on a regular basis. They are now excited to play Dungeons and Dragons. And when they walk in and they see me, they become very talkative and they're super excited.
And sometimes all they need for me is to acknowledge that, not treat them like kids who are being talkative and being problematic, but treating them like people who their point matters and listening with intention, making eye contact, making sure that if they need me to sit down next to them, I ask them and then.
When they say yes, I can sit down to them, uh, sit down next to them. I can make sure that I'm actively engaging what is exciting for them. But with an energy level that is, um, very calm. Um, I've learned that a lot of people when they come in and they're excited, there's an underlined anxiety. So I do my best to keep my heart rate down, keep myself centered on the moment.
And as people roll in, I'll approach each people, uh, each person and help them get set up in the game. And when we're actually playing, one of the core things that I do is help to make sure that people get. Active time to communicate and to be heard by the group. Um, so there's a lot more I could really dive into, and this whole process is very complex, but I hope that kind of gives a better understanding on what that setting can be like.
[00:24:38] Marco Ciappelli: It certainly does, and I want to thank you for that. I think that What many people would look at something that they consider details, for you, it's the actual core of the entire. Correct me if I'm wrong, meaning the details are really maybe as important, if not more important than the event itself.
[00:25:07] Thomas R. Wilson: Yes, I would also agree making sure that people feel like they matter is just as much as that.
Yes.
[00:25:16] Marco Ciappelli: So let's talk about. The choice and you mentioned, uh, the use of dangers and dragons, which, uh, you know, it's a fantasy tabletop that it's a role playing. I'm assuming a lot of people know what it is, but also it's, I believe it started in the early 1970s. So there may be people listening now that they haven't experienced that.
And I want you to tell me why a role player game like this, and it's important for your storytelling session with this community. And also, I guess, why do you think is still relevant something that is done pretty much with your brain and your fantasy without the aid of technology? Seriously, in the time of virtual reality, of getting online, multimedia.
Uh, interactive world, dangers and dragons is still very much relevant. So if you can, a little background for those that maybe are not familiar with it and why it's the, is a great tool for you to use.
[00:26:32] Thomas R. Wilson: Um, so, I mean, it's, yeah, it's been around at least since the 70s, I believe. Um, I think the core aspect of Dungeons Dragons, I mean, it, it went through a major revival.
I don't know if you've personally heard of Critical Role or some of the other larger, uh, D& D troops where they do, like, At what they call actual plays, which are like very much little plays done in D& D. Um, and I may be misspeaking a little bit for the sake of time, but I think the, the thing that keeps Dungeons and Dragons alive, no matter how influential a creator is, is human connection.
I run a lot of games online, to be honest, but. In the work I do, this game is so important because not only does it, is it a storytelling service, it's something that helps to uplift voices. I mentioned just a bit ago that I make sure each person is heard, and the actual turn based system in Dungeons Dragons is really useful for this because People get a group activity, but they also get one on one interaction from time to time with the person telling the story.
A lot of the work I do is actually with beginners and helping them learn the game in the way that they need, but I work with experienced players as well. Um, but this game is actually beautifully crafted. I often, uh, tell people I think that Dungeons Dragons and all of the supplements and books that have been made over the years are very much made by people from my community.
It's very clear. But, um I often find that, you know, in general, the rules are very complicated, um, and in my work, what I do is I simplify that, I make it flow, but this game is also incredibly useful for helping develop self advocacy schools by giving prompts and questions that, when I'm working with individuals that are looking for that, they can get ways to interact with the real world, um, in the past.
It's a beautiful game that incorporates math and creative processing and creative problem solving, peer to peer engagement, uh, creative fantasy development, backstory development, lore creation, group storytelling. It's a fantastic game for All of these elements, and again, it's something that would take a long time to fully explain, but in someone who has my skill set and my experience, it's also something that really can help build up community, help make friendships, and actually help with those neurodiverse needs while honoring people and making sure That we don't continue to leave people behind who want to access their community.
Um, there's so much that I could say in the very limited time we have, but the core of it is it's a human interaction game that has. So many capabilities for ad adaptation and ideas and just so much more.
[00:29:48] Marco Ciappelli: I love it. I love it. So with the time that we have left, we've talked about how you got involved into loving storytelling, becoming.
Really good professional storytellers, how you are involving the diverse communities into these and how you're dedicated to it. I would like to finish the last few minutes we have with you explaining how stories are actually empowering. The neurodiverse community. What is, let's say, success between, you know, hair quotes again, for you?
And what is the success of an event and what you do into How do you quantify that with your community? I guess it's maybe a very dry question, but I think it's the best way I can put it.
[00:30:51] Thomas R. Wilson: Well, thank you. I think the success is really each time I show up to an event, and you know, people may be bored at the beginning.
They may be If it's Dungeons and Dragons, you know, getting through the dry aspect, or if it's storytelling or public speaking, I think the, and even writing, I think the success really boils down to how it helps people, how it. What I've seen, like you said, and it becomes to the fact that I've seen over 60 people within three months join Dungeons Dragons.
I've seen so many different community members, organizations, and it really is that going down to that human aspect of people feeling excited to come back to a storytelling event or a D& D game to feel like they have been heard and appreciated. Um, And there's so many people that I've worked with over this last short period of time, and I think the success, it was all in seeing people offering spaces and getting to hear people say they had fun.
They got to practice skills. I mean, I know one kid who said, Uh, who said that, you know, it was amazing how I was able to take care of everyone and keep the story going. This is maybe like a 12 year old who then called me the world's greatest, uh, game master, which is a term in Dungeons and Dragons. And for me, the real success is every time I end an event, people being able to, being excited to come back, to do work.
To play games, to have fun, to build relationships over and over and over again. And that's happened so many times. Again, like we said, we don't have a lot of time, but I really want to say the success is the continued desire that the desire to be around people, to have fun, to connect to their community and to really feel important and own that and not feel like their diagnosis.
In the actual time of whatever I'm doing is the central thing, but they are. Um, I know that can be a bit vague, but I hope that helps explain it.
[00:33:06] Marco Ciappelli: I think, I think it's pretty clear. I think you put it beautifully. So you're the world's greatest. Danger Master, which is great. I mean, I, I think that's the biggest compliment you can get for someone that has passion for, for this.
So props to the 12 years old that told you that. It must've felt really, really good. Does it ever happen that somebody that has been coming over and over to your event and, and loving it has become a Storyteller itself, like a dungeon master, if you've seen maybe other event coming from people that were part of your event and they decided, I can do this, and I want to do this to to kind of like tell the story and retell the story and then retell the story because I think that's Very much one of the power of stories that then it can become your story, too
[00:34:06] Thomas R. Wilson: I have seen that it hasn't happened As much as I would like but I believe that my work is only just starting and I believe in the next Several years there's going to be more and more people I really believe that this work needs to be done by more and more and more people And I found myself at a very niche kind of community that I believe is going to grow very much.
And at the end of the day, I may not have heard a lot of people, but I'm hoping through continuing stories, it does happen. It does happen that Many more people will be inspired and continue to do this wonderful work.
[00:34:52] Marco Ciappelli: And I hope that this conversation that we had could contribute to that. I hope that people that are listening, maybe they get motivated.
To do something like this in their area, maybe get in touch with you, get some advice, maybe learn more about what you do, and of course for that, I will have all the links to your LinkedIn, to your website, I know you have a blog, I will list all of that. In the notes, and I would encourage to get in touch with, uh, with Thomas, if you are interested in learning more about what he does, and, uh, and, and I hope you enjoyed this conversation.
As I often say, Thomas, I, I, I don't do what you do, but I do have the same vision in terms of, even if one person listen, it's going to change. For the best is going to get motivated to do something about their passion. I think it's a successful episode, even one person. That's what matters to me. So I want to thank you very much for coming on.
And I enjoyed this conversation. You are a great storyteller. And I would invite you to come back in the future and share more story with me as well.
[00:36:11] Thomas R. Wilson: I would love that. Thank you so much for this time. Of
[00:36:14] Marco Ciappelli: course. Thank you very much to you and to everybody listening. Stay tuned, subscribe, and, uh, there'll be many more other stories about stories, storytellers, and storytelling.
Thank you very much.
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